Hi Rob. Got some … Hi Rob. Got some answers that are simply nonsense and some have honestly said they don’t know. Iyengar himself still hasn’t replied.LOVE to all
The student who was … The student who was cautious with her knees is sensible. More troubling are students who wont back off. In virasana, for example, there are numerous modifications to accommodate knee problems. A-type personalities argue against recommendations because they don’t want to “do it the weak way.” Then I have to waste valuable class time bringing this person back to earth. This is the right way for you, at the moment. That is the right way for her, at the moment. More intense dose not mean better.
If you KNOW … If you KNOW something is wrong with your knees (or any body part) and the teacher won’t let you modify a pose, there’s something wrong with the teacher. Don’t go. Face it, Bikram’s technique is geared for people who (think they) want something intense, and some fitness instructors (not just Bikram’s yoga) think they’re catering to that by being relentless. I love Bikram yoga, but had to stop (college & tuition bills took priority) and I miss it. If you like Brian Kest better, then bunk Bikram!
I have contacted … I have contacted the Iyengar institute and British Wheel of Yoga. Will let you know how they respond. I remember in India, some people doing an unusual gesture in a temple. So I asked why? They just didn’t know and were asking one another why? I have a feeling that my questions to BWY and Iyengar will have a similar effect. Much love to everyone
I use that phrase … I use that phrase because the distal portions of the body are easier to see and feel then the proximal body. Beginners can see the effects of the humerous turning easier then seeing the humerous itself turning. More advanced students do indeed have the ability to distinguish between feeling the humerous and the forearm. There maybe other reasons to keep the palms facing up. There’s lots I don’t know . Maybe sometimes its bad ! For best answers see a senior Iyengar teacher, which I am not.
Evolution. I see. … Evolution. I see. You don’t mean anatomical structure.
You mean spiritually. Yes. We often don’t realize how uncomfortable we are or how much tension we carry. We often pride ourselves on the amount of needless suffering we can endure. We don’t know how good we can feel. How good life can be. Some of us don’t believe we deserve to feel good. Everyone has there own issues. Yoga teaches how to analyze dispassionately and then evolve. First physical then mental, leading to spiritual.
Well. The greatest … Well. The greatest ancient yogis closely observed nature. We come from the earth that we share with with plants and animals. Also there is an interesting theory of evolution. Those students you mention don’t know the difference between comfort and discomfort as they are used to being uncomfortable and feel that is ‘normal’. From a scientific perspective what is the benefit of turning the wrist from the shoulders? Why ?
I can only speak … I can only speak for myself. I tell my students to turn the palms up not from the wrist but by turning the arm in the shoulder joint. Ideally I would have made reference to this and demonstrated what I mean earlier in the class. If the understanding is not there should I let them suffer? No. I will call all students around to watch as I make the adjustment on myself or a student whose body I am familiar with. In 10 years I’ve yet to have a student prefer to keep the hunch after experiencing this
I really don’t see … I really don’t see the point of watching wild animals and plants as we are neither. Ask a student to sit,lie,or stand in any old way that is comfortable and they will choose whatever is familiar. Slouching is comfortable because it is familiar. Change is sometimes uncomfortable. Look at someone with a hollowed out chest and hunched shoulders and tell me does that person radiate confidence and wellness? Not only does the body change in yoga but also the mind and its perception of itself.
Its not really the … Its not really the palms the teachers are trying to get to but rather the way the humerous sits in the shoulder joint, which has an effect on the aforementioned systems. Most of our bodies have become distorted through everyday living and poor habits. Beginners have no idea what the natural home for their wrist is. They cannot even feel the difference between the wrist rotating and upper arm rotating. Its all one to them. They have to be taught by experience and example.
How can you sing … How can you sing the song if you’ve never heard the tune?Through much, much training under careful observation by senior teachers we learn how to make the adjustments. The purpose is to give the students the feeling they are looking to replicate. A good teacher certainly can look at a student and see that the bones are misaligned. I’m not talking about high velocity adjustments like a chiropractor. I can see the pressure in the neck when the scapula crowd the cervical vertebrae.
Please have a go … Please have a go with the lovely palm experiment. Feel what happens in your shoulder blades and spend a day with palms facing forwards, even try tapping on your keyboard with palms up. Im not saying it’s ‘wrong’ to have palms facing forwards or backwards. I am just saying we should feel our anatomy and not just read it in a book as ‘experts’ often do. Have you had a go yet feeling what palm position does for the shoulders Rob? LOVE and PEACE
It’s beneficial to … It’s beneficial to observe nature, plants, animals and humans. Many Yoga postures originate from this. Placing palms facing up and not allowing them to find their natural home distorts the image in the motor cortex (the centre responsible for all our alignment and movement). Any neurologist will tell you this too! It seems that the yoga I call ’silly’ is purely anatomy 101 without the uniting of the mind/brain.
Hi Robert (the only … Hi Robert (the only guy who seems to be smart enough to question me, who I have much respect for). A good teacher wouldn’t adjust your shoulders in corpse, as he doesn’t know how a person doing corpse is feeling. A good teacher would teach someone how to learn to learn for themselves to notice the natural alignment of his/her arms. How can one be aware if they do not know their own natural alignment and want to be in the ‘correct’ posture all the time?
If you have ever … If you have ever had a good teacher adjust your shoulders while in corpse pose, that is the feeling you are looking for. Dan, do you have any expertise in this subject? You seem to be calling a lot of things silly and comparing people to monkeys. This is basic anatomy 101. The feet should face forward, maleoli on the sides. The scapula belong on the back ribs rather than splayed out to the sides. I’m glad, however, that you point out that the forced, tensed, compressed feeling is wrong. .
The scapula should … The scapula should move closer together and down the back so that it supports the back of the rib cage and the trapezious muscles spread and elongate, taking pressure off the neck. 90% of people I see are badly deformed in this area. Many “modern” exercises exacerbate the problem. It cannot be corrected in 3 easy steps nor should it be forced. Over time, you learn how to make space in the appropriate areas in order to place the bones properly.
The rotator cuff of … The rotator cuff of the shoulders tends to be tight in such a way that the humerous rotates forward to an undesirable degree creating a pinching in the brachial plexus. This has negative effects on the circulatory, nervous, lymphatic, endocrine, and respiratory systems as well as negative psychological effects. The idea is not to force anything or make the back bunch up and become tense. Through asana training, the humerous should learn how to externally rotate (in most people).
Something else I … Something else I have noticed after attending some Ashtanga,Iyengar and Bikram classes - Students being told to lay down in corpse posture with palms facing up. I have never ever seen a corpse (not that Ive seen many) with palms facing up. If you stand and turn palms to face forwards your shoulders compress towards eachother and if palms face behind you, your shoulders open away from eachother. Do you walk around with palms facing forwards? Try being yourself and not a silly corpse! LOVE
Hi Robert. Great to … Hi Robert. Great to see someone asking questions here! You can splay feet out if you like or keep them with toes pointing up. Just notice what is more comfy - together or apart and feel what happening in the lower back and kidneys. Standing with feet together is forcing, as that may not be the way one naturally stands. Even walking monkeys are smart enough to know that. Having the legs together in standing most standing postures is standing ‘correctly’. ‘correctly’ is one’s beliefs- not reality
Room must be made … Room must be made in the ankle joint so that the bones sit properly. Then look and see do the knees face strait ahead? If no why? Is the femur sitting properly in the hip? No changes should be forced, but coaxed slowly over a long period of time under competent, compassionate guidance. This introspective questioning and analysis of the body, cultivates the mind for concentration and eventually meditation. A good teacher should look at the big picture.
Are you suggesting … Are you suggesting that the toes should splay out to the side when standing upright? Certainly people should not grip the out of there knees and buttocks and such in order to maintain an unnaturally erect posture. Often the toes turn out because the arch of the foot has collapsed and the inner ankle drops. sometimes the IT band is over tight pulling the patella out of line and over rotating the thighs outward. So the toes turning out is a symptom and the underlying problem must be addressed
this is really … this is really awesome, because I’m 17 and I just hurt my knee a little. I can still walk fine, but I know something needs a little help.
Point taken. In … Point taken. In much Yoga, people are told to stand with their feet together (like soldiers). All one needs to do is lay on their back and put their feet together, toes pointing to ceiling, and feel what it does to the back. After observing this sensation for a while, rest the feet comfortably apart and notice what requires less effort and is more restful to ones back and kidneys. The same thing happens in standing postures.
Short Video on Bikram Yoga
25 Responses
Markohoppis
2008 Sep 02 1107 degrees?
Can …
107 degrees?
Can you imagine the smell of ass, armpit, and in that room? WOW!
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 2Hi Rob. Got some …
Hi Rob. Got some answers that are simply nonsense and some have honestly said they don’t know. Iyengar himself still hasn’t replied.LOVE to all
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 3The student who was …
The student who was cautious with her knees is sensible. More troubling are students who wont back off. In virasana, for example, there are numerous modifications to accommodate knee problems. A-type personalities argue against recommendations because they don’t want to “do it the weak way.” Then I have to waste valuable class time bringing this person back to earth. This is the right way for you, at the moment. That is the right way for her, at the moment. More intense dose not mean better.
RizdeeRosie
2008 Sep 02 4If you KNOW …
If you KNOW something is wrong with your knees (or any body part) and the teacher won’t let you modify a pose, there’s something wrong with the teacher. Don’t go. Face it, Bikram’s technique is geared for people who (think they) want something intense, and some fitness instructors (not just Bikram’s yoga) think they’re catering to that by being relentless. I love Bikram yoga, but had to stop (college & tuition bills took priority) and I miss it. If you like Brian Kest better, then bunk Bikram!
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 5I have contacted …
I have contacted the Iyengar institute and British Wheel of Yoga. Will let you know how they respond. I remember in India, some people doing an unusual gesture in a temple. So I asked why? They just didn’t know and were asking one another why? I have a feeling that my questions to BWY and Iyengar will have a similar effect. Much love to everyone
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 6I use that phrase …
I use that phrase because the distal portions of the body are easier to see and feel then the proximal body. Beginners can see the effects of the humerous turning easier then seeing the humerous itself turning. More advanced students do indeed have the ability to distinguish between feeling the humerous and the forearm. There maybe other reasons to keep the palms facing up. There’s lots I don’t know . Maybe sometimes its bad ! For best answers see a senior Iyengar teacher, which I am not.
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 7Evolution. I see. …
Evolution. I see. You don’t mean anatomical structure.
You mean spiritually. Yes. We often don’t realize how uncomfortable we are or how much tension we carry. We often pride ourselves on the amount of needless suffering we can endure. We don’t know how good we can feel. How good life can be. Some of us don’t believe we deserve to feel good. Everyone has there own issues. Yoga teaches how to analyze dispassionately and then evolve. First physical then mental, leading to spiritual.
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 8Well. The greatest …
Well. The greatest ancient yogis closely observed nature. We come from the earth that we share with with plants and animals. Also there is an interesting theory of evolution. Those students you mention don’t know the difference between comfort and discomfort as they are used to being uncomfortable and feel that is ‘normal’. From a scientific perspective what is the benefit of turning the wrist from the shoulders? Why ?
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 9I can only speak …
I can only speak for myself. I tell my students to turn the palms up not from the wrist but by turning the arm in the shoulder joint. Ideally I would have made reference to this and demonstrated what I mean earlier in the class. If the understanding is not there should I let them suffer? No. I will call all students around to watch as I make the adjustment on myself or a student whose body I am familiar with. In 10 years I’ve yet to have a student prefer to keep the hunch after experiencing this
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 10I really don’t see …
I really don’t see the point of watching wild animals and plants as we are neither. Ask a student to sit,lie,or stand in any old way that is comfortable and they will choose whatever is familiar. Slouching is comfortable because it is familiar. Change is sometimes uncomfortable. Look at someone with a hollowed out chest and hunched shoulders and tell me does that person radiate confidence and wellness? Not only does the body change in yoga but also the mind and its perception of itself.
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 11So why are students …
So why are students asked to tun the palms up in corpse in Ashtanga and Iyengar and most hatha yoga classes?
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 12Its not really the …
Its not really the palms the teachers are trying to get to but rather the way the humerous sits in the shoulder joint, which has an effect on the aforementioned systems. Most of our bodies have become distorted through everyday living and poor habits. Beginners have no idea what the natural home for their wrist is. They cannot even feel the difference between the wrist rotating and upper arm rotating. Its all one to them. They have to be taught by experience and example.
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 13How can you sing …
How can you sing the song if you’ve never heard the tune?Through much, much training under careful observation by senior teachers we learn how to make the adjustments. The purpose is to give the students the feeling they are looking to replicate. A good teacher certainly can look at a student and see that the bones are misaligned. I’m not talking about high velocity adjustments like a chiropractor. I can see the pressure in the neck when the scapula crowd the cervical vertebrae.
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 14Please have a go …
Please have a go with the lovely palm experiment. Feel what happens in your shoulder blades and spend a day with palms facing forwards, even try tapping on your keyboard with palms up. Im not saying it’s ‘wrong’ to have palms facing forwards or backwards. I am just saying we should feel our anatomy and not just read it in a book as ‘experts’ often do. Have you had a go yet feeling what palm position does for the shoulders Rob? LOVE and PEACE
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 15It’s beneficial to …
It’s beneficial to observe nature, plants, animals and humans. Many Yoga postures originate from this. Placing palms facing up and not allowing them to find their natural home distorts the image in the motor cortex (the centre responsible for all our alignment and movement). Any neurologist will tell you this too! It seems that the yoga I call ’silly’ is purely anatomy 101 without the uniting of the mind/brain.
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 16Hi Robert (the only …
Hi Robert (the only guy who seems to be smart enough to question me, who I have much respect for). A good teacher wouldn’t adjust your shoulders in corpse, as he doesn’t know how a person doing corpse is feeling. A good teacher would teach someone how to learn to learn for themselves to notice the natural alignment of his/her arms. How can one be aware if they do not know their own natural alignment and want to be in the ‘correct’ posture all the time?
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 17If you have ever …
If you have ever had a good teacher adjust your shoulders while in corpse pose, that is the feeling you are looking for. Dan, do you have any expertise in this subject? You seem to be calling a lot of things silly and comparing people to monkeys. This is basic anatomy 101. The feet should face forward, maleoli on the sides. The scapula belong on the back ribs rather than splayed out to the sides. I’m glad, however, that you point out that the forced, tensed, compressed feeling is wrong. .
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 18The scapula should …
The scapula should move closer together and down the back so that it supports the back of the rib cage and the trapezious muscles spread and elongate, taking pressure off the neck. 90% of people I see are badly deformed in this area. Many “modern” exercises exacerbate the problem. It cannot be corrected in 3 easy steps nor should it be forced. Over time, you learn how to make space in the appropriate areas in order to place the bones properly.
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 19The rotator cuff of …
The rotator cuff of the shoulders tends to be tight in such a way that the humerous rotates forward to an undesirable degree creating a pinching in the brachial plexus. This has negative effects on the circulatory, nervous, lymphatic, endocrine, and respiratory systems as well as negative psychological effects. The idea is not to force anything or make the back bunch up and become tense. Through asana training, the humerous should learn how to externally rotate (in most people).
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 20Something else I …
Something else I have noticed after attending some Ashtanga,Iyengar and Bikram classes - Students being told to lay down in corpse posture with palms facing up. I have never ever seen a corpse (not that Ive seen many) with palms facing up. If you stand and turn palms to face forwards your shoulders compress towards eachother and if palms face behind you, your shoulders open away from eachother. Do you walk around with palms facing forwards? Try being yourself and not a silly corpse! LOVE
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 21Hi Robert. Great to …
Hi Robert. Great to see someone asking questions here! You can splay feet out if you like or keep them with toes pointing up. Just notice what is more comfy - together or apart and feel what happening in the lower back and kidneys. Standing with feet together is forcing, as that may not be the way one naturally stands. Even walking monkeys are smart enough to know that. Having the legs together in standing most standing postures is standing ‘correctly’. ‘correctly’ is one’s beliefs- not reality
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 22Room must be made …
Room must be made in the ankle joint so that the bones sit properly. Then look and see do the knees face strait ahead? If no why? Is the femur sitting properly in the hip? No changes should be forced, but coaxed slowly over a long period of time under competent, compassionate guidance. This introspective questioning and analysis of the body, cultivates the mind for concentration and eventually meditation. A good teacher should look at the big picture.
robertemh
2008 Sep 02 23Are you suggesting …
Are you suggesting that the toes should splay out to the side when standing upright? Certainly people should not grip the out of there knees and buttocks and such in order to maintain an unnaturally erect posture. Often the toes turn out because the arch of the foot has collapsed and the inner ankle drops. sometimes the IT band is over tight pulling the patella out of line and over rotating the thighs outward. So the toes turning out is a symptom and the underlying problem must be addressed
BlacklitFloater
2008 Sep 02 24this is really …
this is really awesome, because I’m 17 and I just hurt my knee a little. I can still walk fine, but I know something needs a little help.
plus, I’ve always wanted to do yoga.
realitydan
2008 Sep 02 25Point taken. In …
Point taken. In much Yoga, people are told to stand with their feet together (like soldiers). All one needs to do is lay on their back and put their feet together, toes pointing to ceiling, and feel what it does to the back. After observing this sensation for a while, rest the feet comfortably apart and notice what requires less effort and is more restful to ones back and kidneys. The same thing happens in standing postures.
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